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Republican
Vs. Democrat, Male Vs. Female, War Vs. Peace, Light Vs. Dark, Good
Vs. Evil, Man Vs. Machine, Love Vs. Hate, Dog Vs. Cat, Sun Vs. Moon,
Brain Vs. Brawn, Oscar Vs. Grammy, Angel Vs. Demon, Laurel Vs. Hardy,
Beer Vs. Wine, TV Vs. Radio, Pitcher Vs. Batter, Paper Vs. Plastic,
Reality Vs. Fantasy, Yeshua Vs. Beelzebub, Conservative Vs. Liberal,
You Vs. Me, House Vs. Senate, Offense Vs. Defense, Kramer Vs. Kramer,
Spy Vs. Spy, Fischer Vs. Spassky, W.C. Fields Vs. Sobriety, Harold
Gimpy, Jr. Vs. Sheldon J. Pismire, Rock Vs. Paper Vs. Scissors, Islam
Vs. Everything, Singer Vs. Singer, Band Vs. Band...
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THE
BATTLE OF THE BANDS! (‘BOTB’)
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Shoop-Shooby
–
Shooby-duh-Dooby-Doop-Dooby-Dooby-Doo-Wah
–
Buh-Doo-Wah!
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Yes,
it’s time once again for ‘Battle Of The Bands’
(‘BOTB’)
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Alright,
let’s get on it...
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| EUGENE MARTONE VS. JACK BUTLER |
...But first I have an important shout-out:
In olden days there was a Countess and she gave me Count Floyd, Gene Tierney, Glenn Miller, Bobby Darin, the Northwoods Inn, her 'Fabulous Baker Boys' CD soundtrack, Beanjuato Pies, a "Happy Day" on the 3rd day of each month, the scar on my right index finger, and too many other things to list. (To be absolutely honest, it was her parrot, Chix O'Tipplin, who gave me the scar on my right index finger.)
In turn, I gave her Roy Rogers, Waylon Jennings, Deputy Dawg, Mike Scioscia and the 1988 Los Angeles Dodgers, the Crest House Lounge, the 'Storybook Inn' Bed & Breakfast, Van Morrison, a "Happy Day" on the 23rd day of each month, and too many other things to list. Also, I didn't kill her parrot when he bit me. All in all though, I think I got the best of the deal.
It's doubtful that any two people ever laughed more together than we did, and when the Countess and I broke up after many years (but remained saddle pals always), one of my best friends was absolutely crushed. He was convinced that if the relationship that the Countess and I had couldn't last, then there was no hope for Romance in this world.
I just want to take this moment to say:
"Happy 'ALL SAINTS DAY', Pipps Terwilliger. Your ol' saddle pal, Trummy Tewksbury, never forgets!"
And, incidentally, it was also I who gave the Countess Pipps the song that we are using in today's 'Battle Of The Bands', so let's get to that now...
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The song is a gorgeous ballad, a confession of true, everlasting love. 'IF EVER I WOULD LEAVE YOU' comes from the 1967 "Summer Of Love" movie musical 'Camelot', which is about King Arthur and his knights of the Round Table, Sir Lancelot, and Guenevere - the woman both men loved. It is Lancelot who sings it to Guenevere.
"Officially" speaking, this BOTB contest is between Nathan Gunn and Richie Cole, who provides an instrumental version featuring his alto saxophone. However, I am also making the short (2:30) movie version sung by Franco Nero available for your voting pleasure.
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| GODZILLA VS. KING KONG |
I'm a 100% straight dude, but even I gotta admit that Franco Nero is one good looking guy and he sings this song with great feeling. I think you womens will really like this one a lot, so you might want to consider it before moving on to the two "official" contestants. (To be honest, I wouldn't even be surprised if Franco Nero wins this BOTB contest.)
'IF
EVER I WOULD LEAVE YOU' – FRANCO NERO (2:20)
Next up is the opera singer Nathan Gunn. I admit that I'm not usually an opera fan (in the least) but "Hokey-Smoke" and "Hoo-Wee" can this boy ever sing! It's clear even to me that God created this cat to sing for his living. What a VOICE!
Listen to that audience cheering at the end! What do they think they just experienced, Kirk Gibson hitting the 9th-inning winning home run in the first game of the 1988 World Series? ["Fifty thousand fans screaming for forty-five minutes. It was, it was incredible!" ~Mike Scioscia, 1988 Dodger catcher.] See whatcha think...
'IF
EVER I WOULD LEAVE YOU' – NATHAN GUNN
(3:30)
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Now lastly, is an instrumental take on this ballad with Richie Cole blowing his alto sax. First of all, I was hindered from embedding this video on this blog, so you will need to click the URL LINK to the video, and then return here to place your vote for Nero, Gunn, or Cole.
Also, I really need you to close your eyes while listening to the Cole instrumental. Half of the images used in the video complement the music really well, but the other half of them are so incompatible and off-the-wall that I think this is one of the strangest, most bizarre music videos I've ever found at YouTube. So, to give Richie a fair chance, please listen with your eyes closed first. Afterwards - having decided who you are voting for - if you want to watch the video just to see what I am referring to above, by all means have at 'er.
Click HERE.
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| RIDDLER VS. BATMAN |
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After voting here, I suggest - actually I insist - you pop over to the blogs of the other 'BATTLE OF THE BANDS' participants to see which songs they have chosen and vote there also. (If their ‘BOTB’ blog bits aren’t posted yet, pour yourself two shots of ‘Grand Marnier’ over ice – do it twice – and then return to their blogsto
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Voice Your Vote @ ‘FAR AWAY SERIES’ by clicking HERE.
@ ‘TOSSING IT OUT’ by clicking HERE.
@ ‘YOUR DAILY DOSE’ by clicking HERE.
@ ‘DISCCONNECTED’ by clicking HERE.
@ 'BOOK LOVER' by clicking HERE.
@ ‘CREATIVE OUTLET OF STRATPLAYER’ by clicking HERE.
@ 'MIKE'S RAMBLINGS' by clicking HERE.
@ 'CURIOUS AS A CATHY' by clicking HERE.
@ 'THE SOUND OF ONE HAND TYPING' by clicking HERE.
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As I've done in the past, I will continue to return to my 'BOTB' blog bits on the 7th and 21st of each month to post my own votes and announce the winners in the comment sections.
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~ Stephen T. McCarthy
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YE OLDE COMMENT POLICY: All comments, pro and con, are welcome. However, ad hominem attacks and disrespectful epithets will not be tolerated (read: "posted"). After all, this isn’t Amazon.com, so I don’t have to put up with that kind of bovine excrement.
I definitely prefer Franco Nero over Nathan Gunn. I am a moderate fan of opera, but the voices like Gunn and the really eardrum shattering sopranos are what turns me off about opera. I forget what version used to get played a lot on the radio in the 60's--Robert Goulet I'm guessing without looking it up--but I did prefer that vocal version more than any I suppose.
ReplyDeleteIn this contest I'm going for the sax playing with the cool/weird video. Laid back, boozy, bluesy fix me another one bartender good stuff.
My vote is for Richie Cole--big time.
Lee
Tossing It Out
Yes, sir, BOIDMAN LEE, it is the Robert Goulet version that probably received more radio airplay than any other.
DeleteWhen putting this BOTB contest together, I did listen to the Goulet version. But in my opinion, both Franco Nero and Nathan Gunn sing it with more genuine feeling than Goulet did, AND I think Gunn even has the better voice.
So I scratched Goulet's version off the list pretty quickly. His wasn't bad by any means, but just not as good as these vocal performances. At least that's what my ears told me, and they've never lied to me before... too very many times often.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
I literally caught my breath when you revealed the song for today.
ReplyDeleteIn junior high school, I auditioned for community theatre. I was too young for anything but the chorus, but that was so much fun. The first play I participated in was Jesus Christ Superstar. I love all of the music from that one. The second was... Camelot. My favorite song from that play was If Ever I Would Leave You. I always stopped to watch it from backstage. Every single time.
Being in Camelot, I developed a love for Arthurian legend. I will read novels about it (and have), watch movies about it (and have). There is a TV show on now called Merlin. I think it must be on one of the movie channels, so I haven't seen it. I suspect I will buy it on DVD... because I love all things Camelot.
I've seen or heard the first version before. I think I've seen it, because it LOOKED familiar, as well as sounded familiar.
I am not an opera fan, but this didn't sound all that "opera-y" to me. Gunn has a wonderful bass voice that I felt in places not appropriate for this blog. Holy tomole. No wonder Guinevere had that dazed look on her face. I LOVED it... and you know it's getting my vote. I knew as soon as I heard it.
That said, I really enjoyed the instrumental, even though instrumental pieces are not usually my thing. And it beat the Nero version in my mind. Some very fine playing. I could and would listen to it again.
But, Gunn... wowza. My mother wants to be reincarnated as a bass, with an excellent singing voice. I don't want that. I just want a bass with an excellent singing voice. Give me some Gunn!!!
G.W. ~
Delete>>... I love all things Camelot.
Even the Kennedy Administration?
The interview marked the first time "Camelot" was linked to the Kennedy administration in print. In an excerpt published decades ago, Mrs. Kennedy recalled that her husband loved the recording of the musical 'Camelot'. "The lines he loved to hear were: 'Don't let it be forgot, that once there was a spot, for one brief shining moment that was known as Camelot'”," she said.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jackie.txt
The ONLY person whose BOTB vote I felt I could accurately predict in advance was YOURS! I felt sure you would vote for Nathan Gunn. What surprises me though is that you would select the instrumental over the other vocal version. I certainly didn't see THAT coming.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Ooohhh, this was so close...
ReplyDeleteAs much as I love Nero, and I do truly love his voice, I gotta go with Gunn. Beautiful!
Goulet's version is fine, but he is...Goulet. He always reminded me of a lounge lizard. Sorry, RG, wherever you are...just my humble opinion.
CHERDO ~
DeleteGoulet does have a good voice, and I've never really thought of him as "lounge", but in listening to his cover compared with the two vocal versions I used here, I felt that Nero (Merlino) and Gunn had a woman in mind while they were singing the song.
I felt Robert Goulet (who is also secretly Roger Whittaker minus a single syllable) was more likely thinking: Listen to me hit all these notes and show off my voice!
I felt the romance more in these two versions.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Franco Nero for my vote, as the actors seem more in tune with the song and I like his voice and emo, and I like Vanessa Redgrave. Don't like the second version as there is no embracing to back up the words. The sax is beautiful on the third version but without the words it's just nice jazz.
ReplyDeleteThanks, D.G., for the vote and the analysis. Now all three have received a vote, as it should be. (I couldn't imagine any of these performers getting completely shut out.)
Delete~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
I'll stick to your official contest, otherwise I'd vote for the Camelot version since it had almost a half a century head start (can't remember when I first saw Camelot, but I was awful young and we went as a family).
ReplyDeleteOf the other two, even though I am not a huge opera fan, I'll vote for the vocal version, but the instrumental was quite nice.
There is a vocal styling in opera that I just do not care for, which made this pretty close, but at the end of the day, I prefer vocals to not, so Gunn edges out Cole for my vote.
LC
LC ~
DeleteHard to know how I should count your vote, because the film version (Merlino as Nero) is a perfectly valid vote and will keep this contest interesting. (Guess I will need to watch how I word things in these BOTBs.)
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
NOTE:
ReplyDeleteI will return as soon as time allows and reply to each voter individually. But for now I just want to make everyone aware that I have received an Email from my friend SHEBOYGANBOY SIX who said...
I suspected it was dubbed and, in fact,
Nero's singing voice was dubbed by Gene Merlino.
I had wondered about this myself when putting together this BOTB. Dang! Did that guy, Franco Nero, REALLY look like that AND sing that well?
I considered the possibility that Nero wasn't really doing the singing of 'If Ever I Would Leave You' but I did not come across any mention of the fact that Nero was not truly the vocalist.
My thanks to SBB-6 for the correction!
Now we know, the film version is really by Gene Merlino with a visual assist from Nero. But for our purposes here, we'll go ahead and continue referring to it as "a vote for Franco Nero", unless you prefer to write "Gene Merlino" when voting or commenting. Both names will work for me when tallying up the votes at the end of this BOTB on November 7th.
Thanks, SIX! Good to know, Bro.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Strangely, tonight I watched a DVD documentary that I bought several years back. The doc is about those businesses that you see advertised in the backs of magazines that are looking for poems to set to music. Among the artists who perform these often bizarre songs that few people ever hear was none other than Gene Merlino.
DeleteI was surprised to see his name and after the DVD ended I went to the IMDb site and confirmed that it was one and the same person. He also did some voice work in Disney animated features and is credited as a stuntman in the movie "Three Amigos".
Weird, weird, weird.
Lee
Wrote By Rote
LEE ~
DeleteI don't even know the advertisements you're referring to, but since I don't read magazines, my ignorance about them is no mystery.
Yeah, I knew that Merlino had done some voice work for Disney because I caught that when I also went to IMDB to look him up. The stunt work though is pretty surprising. He sings and takes a beating for his living. Me, I only take a beating for mine.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Those ads have been in magazines for years. I used to see them when I was a kid. On occasion I even have thought of sending something in just to see what would happen.
DeleteIf you're interested in seeing the documentary--I think this is something you might enjoy for a diversion--it seems like it should be available on Netflix and I think it's online as well. I recommend it. It's called Off the Charts.
For reviews you can check out your friends at your favorite website:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00016XO6K
If you see Saboteur please let me know your thoughts on it.
Lee
Tossing It Out
OK, Lee, will do.
DeleteI did add 'Saboteur' to my NetFlix queue and bumped it up to #2, so it should only be a couple weeks from now when I'll see it, Brother.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Of the two sung versions, Nathan has the more swoon-worthy voice. I did expect the two to kiss in Franco's. I feel cheated at the abrupt end.
ReplyDeleteHowever, that sax makes a girl long for a good glass of wine and a smoke - after. Too awesome. The sax gets my vote.
DONNA ~
Delete"After"?
After... what?
You got sax on yer mind?
[;-)}
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Ok, McBuddy. I am FINALLY back from helping my daughter and S.I.L. all day with building a complicated shed/storage building. Yea! I finally get to listen to this excellent BOTB!
ReplyDeleteYou've had so many that I cannot remember for sure if one topped this one for me, so I'll just say that this is my favorite battle yet!
What a great song. Lovely melody. I think I'd like it if almost anyone sang or played it (I even think Willie Nelson would do a creditable job with it.) I like all your versions here, but being a six-Gunnslinger myself as well as an opera lover (I saw Don Giovanni this week, in fact), Nathan Gunn wins this one going away for me.
He has performed up here at the Seattle Opera, and is a pretty well-known bass-baritone. Like you, I am 100% straight, but I recognize that he is a handsome guy. He is sometimes called a "barihunk" by female fans.
I can easily see how this could be a special song to two young lovers. I wish the Count and Countess could have made it last forever! Makes me sad, damn it.
SBB-6 ~
DeleteHow about Karen Carpenter?
Thanks! Pleased you like this one so much. I've waited a long time to put this one together (had been planning it since my very first BOTB blog bit).
Yeah, it's a beautiful song in every way.
I think I'm in agreement with you, that this is probably my best BOTB ever. The only other two I can think of that give it a run for its money are 'CANADIAN SUNSET' and 'ROUTE 66'. But, yeah, I believe I'd put this one at the top of my list also.
I would have guessed you to go with either Gunn or Cole, so no big surprise on your vote. And, you KNOW I am NOT an opera guy, but even I was very wowed when I first heard the Gunn version. I was originally just planning on using the film version against the instrumental, but hearing Gunn sing it, I was pretty much FORCED to make this a 3-Way BOTB.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
One of the most beautiful songs. I go with Nathan all the way. A powerful voice with so much control. he just seems to sing this song with such ease. I am not into the sax one much as I always love to hear the words. Good Ole Franco Nero-As far as I know he was probably dubbed. I would have said he was dubbed by Marni Nixon but since she is a girl and dubbed everyone from Audrey Hepburn to Ava Gardner, I bet her voice was not the one:) (giggle). Franco was just too handsome and his name always reminded me of a soap opera name:) Love the song
ReplyDeleteBIRGIT ~
DeleteThanks for your vote!
Now that you mention it, Franco Nero does sound quite a bit like Marni Nixon. Hmmm...
Well, it looks like Gunn is blowing away the competition. And I'm sure saxman Cole was very confident that it was HE who would blow away the competition.
It's fitting that Nero should NOT win this 'Battle Of The Bands' since he fiddled while Camelot burned.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Very nice BATTLE good sir. Great song and three superb versions.
ReplyDeleteFranco Nero and Vanessa Redgrave sure did make a handsome couple, eh? Guess they thought so too, cause they had a child together and then later married. (I found that at Wacky Watchee, cause I was curious and couldn’t sleep last night). Too bad it isn’t really him singing. Although it would seem more than a bit unfair if he got those good looks and such a nice voice, eh?
Next up that Gunn guy. Wow! I love a deep rich baritone and he ain’t too hard on the eyes either. I did read the comments and someone said that this version lacked the emotion of the first. Are they kidding me? I mean they aren’t rolling around on the ground or anything like that, but that voice alone has emotion dripping from it. He is Superb, Magnificent, Wonderful, and IMO deserves every round of that marvelous ovation at the end. After all this I bet you figure I might be voting for Mr. Gunn, but hold on just a cotton pickin’ minute, here.
The instrumental version by Richie Cole, now that’s what I’m talking about. That smoky sex (OK, OK, don’t get yer shorts in a bunch – you know what I mean) Whew! I know the words and this instrumental has so much feeling, I ‘get it’. I’m kinda glad it isn’t cluttered up with vocal accompaniment. I’m listening to it now while I type and can barely keep my shirt on (figuratively, of course). I love, Love, LOVE this version and knew from the very first listen through yesterday THIS would get my vote.
Excellent BATTLE from TSMOTP. It is right up there with the best. ‘Canadian Sunset’ still ranks as my favorite, but I do think this is second. This instrumental version of ‘If Ever I Would Leave You’ is I-N-C-R-E-D-I-B-L-E.
Did I say ‘I love it’?
FAE ~
ReplyDeleteYeah, you "get it" alright, that's for sure. I think I would have guessed you as a "Nero voter", but as I said above, the ONLY person whose vote I felt I knew for sure was Robin's. And anybody voting for Richie Cole wouldn't surprise me because... well... hell... if they have ears...
And something tells me Richie hasn't received his final vote yet, as I've a hunch that Beer Boy Bryan may lean that way. (Although I could be wrong, but if I were REQUIRED to bet, I'd put my chips on number Three when it comes to 6-B's vote.)
I did NOT know that about Franco Nero and Vanessa Redgrave, and thanks for passing that information along. Ya know, he may not have really done the singing, but I've seen that clip now about 6 or 7 times since posting this BOTB and in closely watching his eyes and mannerisms, Sir Lancelot indeed seems to have a thang for Guenevere. Now I come to learn that he wasn't "acting".
Thanks for the vote and for 'splainin' it.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
POSTSCRIPT:
I believe the reason I myself rate this BOTB higher than 'Canadian Sunset' (which may have been my favorite prior to this, or maybe it was even 'We'll Be Together Again' which was the all-time toughest vote for me to decide on) is because this one has 3 excellent versions of the song, whereas 'Canadian Sunset' was 2 excellent versions, and because although I love both songs, 'If Ever I Would Leave You' appeals to me a bit more.
Thanks for making it so easy for me to find that 'Canadian Sunset' BOTB. I went back and listened to both versions while I reread the comments. Man, that is one great song and those were two wonderful versions of it.
DeleteBefore I even read our comment exchange, those same images came back to me in a flash (of course, I did have some recollection of what I had said, but it was just as good and vivid as the first time).
This 'If Ever I Would Leave You', BATTLE is excellent, but 'Canadian Sunset' is still my favorite. It outta be, if it can conjure up those images so readily. Glad my comments still held up for you after all these months, as well as they did for me.
I can see why IEIWLY might edge out CS for you - purely sentimental and then there is that menage a trois thing you go goin' on here. Sorry - I just can't seem to help myself.
One more time - Great BATTLE here (and #16).
I have loved this song ever since first hearing Richie's version in another lifetime. For a long time, I never knew the lyrics, and each time I listened to the song, the last minute always swept me away -- My heart must have known the lyrics even then. After seeing the movie 'Camelot' for the first time, I realized that I loved the actual lyrics too! Such a beautiful song...I love almost every version I have ever heard since then. I am VERY familiar with the film version and Richie Cole's version, but had not heard Nathan Gunn's version before. OK, so as I'm sitting here now, I have found more Nathan Gunn music and am enjoying his singing very much. His version is really, really good. I actually listened without watching the video, so I could focus on the sound. At the end of the song, you can hear Guinevere's heavy breathing...mighty 'stimulatin'! Really good...and I can say that you've now given me Nathan Gunn!! :) BUT, I will stay with the version that started it all for me....Richie Cole. His version still moves me the same as it did the first time I heard it. Great battle, great song!!
ReplyDeleteTN KAT ~
DeleteI must say I'm surprised your vote didn't go to Gunn, but I'm not disappointed. Glad to know that Richie's version still holds up so well for ya. And, YES, that does seem now like it was another lifetime, doesn't it?
That last minute of Cole's version... yeah, I know what you mean. It is so damn "torchy" that I'm always a little surprised when my speakers don't catch fire!
Thanks for checking in and voting. This BOTB needed your input. (And, by the way, we do these "Battle Of The Bands" installments on the 1st and 15th of every month, and you have an open invitation to come by and cast a vote any time you'd like to. I would always be happy to find you votin'.)
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Hey Stephen T ~ I hope I'm not too late to the party! I definitely vote for Nero. Love the voice...whoever it belongs to! ;)
ReplyDeleteBECKY-O! ~
DeleteNot too late at all. I won't be closing down the voting window until Nov. 7th. So, thanks for keeping Nero in the game!
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
It's been such a long time since I've seen the movie, and I fell in love with Franco Nero all over again. Before I read any of the comments, I suspected his voice was dubbed. Turns out some of us read that Gene Merlino sang for Nero. The Internet source seemed questionable, so I Googled Gene Merlino, and there was no mention of him performing in Camelot. The other articles I read said that Nero needed a lot of work on his singing, but never mentioned he was dubbed. I decided to delve further by researching Marni Nixon who sang for Natalie Wood in West Side Story, Deborah Kerr in The King and I etc etc. Since she had nothing to hide, it made no sense that Camelot didn't appear on Merlino's IMDB page. In conclusion, I think Franco Nero did his own singing, but Nathan Gunn was better. Nathan Gunn gets my vote, though I hope I've restored Franco Nero's honor. Unless I'm wrong, then nevermind.
ReplyDeleteJulie
JULIE ~
DeleteHmmm... Well, your comment really lit up the Private Investigator in me. After SBB-6's correction, I did a Google search and found a site somewhere (don't remember now what it was) that said Gene Merlino had done the singing but had not been credited in the film. Which is peculiar, but it's happened before (like with the song 'You're A Mean One, Mister Grinch' which was sung by Tony the Tiger but in an oversight he was not credited).
So, your comment got me to look again and... I did find the following under the category of "Soundtracks" at one of Merlino's IMDB pages (oddly, it seemed he had two) :
Camelot (performer: "C'est Moi", "If Ever I Would Leave You", "I Loved You Once In Silence" - uncredited)
So, maybe what they meant was that Nero needed a lot of work on his singing... so much so that they told him to stop, and hired Merlino? :-)
At any rate, whoever did the singing, he just lost another vote (YOURS) to Nathan Gunn. And many thanks for that vote and your interest, too, Julie!
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Stephen - Somehow I missed the soundtracks for Camelot on IMDB. It is strange that Merlino had two separate pages. It's also odd it was publicized when bigger stars like Audrey Hepburn, and Natalie Wood were dubbed. I'm really surprised there was more secrecy surrounding Franco Nero. Thanks for getting to the bottom of this Stephen McColumbo!
DeleteJulie
>>... "Thanks for getting to the bottom of this Stephen McColumbo!"
DeleteHA! JULIE, you made my day (and it's only now just starting). "McColumbo"... I LOVE Columbo and think he was amongst the all-time greatest characters ever created for TV.
I haven't seen an episode in decades but I remember Columbo fondly. I was pretty young when those shows first started airing in the early '70s, but I watched 'em for years. Peter Falk was just so perfect for that part. I loved watching the way his mind (trapped inside that broken-down, seemingly bumbling body, wrapped inside a preposterously wrinkled raincoat) would gradually tighten the noose around the criminal's guilty conscience.
Columbo was always twelve steps ahead of EVERYONE else but giving the appearance that he was 12 miles behind 'em. And as he's gradually assessing the situation like an A-list surgeon, following up on clues and hunches, he was also irritating the criminal to such a degree that the guilty party would damn-near break down and confess committing the crime JUST so they wouldn't have to hear Columbo say, "Oh... one more thing..."
Damn, that was great writing and acting.
Some time back, a group of us bloggers (before you and I became acquainted and when I was still operating my old blog 'STUFFS') participated in a Blogfest where you had to list your Top 10 Favorite TV Shows Of All Time.
My list included nuttin' but comedies - 10 comedy shows - and although I do like some movie dramas, I guess when it comes to TV watching (which I do almost none of now except for DVDs of old shows) I always just wanted to laugh.
However, in putting that Blogfest list together - which I agonized over for quite awhile - the ONE and ONLY TV drama that I even considered including on my list was 'COLUMBO'. And maybe if I'd seen some episodes more recently than 25 years ago, it might very well have edged out one of those comedies that I DID include.
Thanks for the fun comment, Julie!
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Hey StevieMacDaddie! Sorry I was off the grid this past weekend. Trying to catch up with BOTB today.
ReplyDeleteYou know? I'm weird. OK, maybe that's not a revelation, but let me offer a specific reason for saying this: I like this song, but I usually don't care for it. I like the sentiment, and lyrically, it has some great lines. Musically, it's sweet and effective.
But I really, really dislike the affected male operatic male singing. In general, I'm not an opera guy (odd for a person who just posted a song using samples of Lily Pons, huh? Like I said -- weird...). And this song is a major offender. It's taking soft, gentle lyrics and trying to sing them with a DEEP, STRONG, POWERFUL voice. To me, it would be much more effective to lean in close and softly whisper them; to share them with a breathy caress.
So while I admire and respect the vocal talent on display in the pseudo-Nero movie clip and especially in the Nathan Gunn rendition, both strike me as more jarring than anything. I know there are frequently comments about "lookit-me" guitar solos when featured in BOTB battles, but these both strike me as vocally much the same thing -- the effect is more "check out my amazing voice!" rather than let me pull you in to a great song.
BUT -- the Richie Cole version is simply awesome!!! Thank you so much for including that one. Despite the WTF???? video images, the song is haunting and beautiful. Soft, warm, sensual, and beautiful. THIS is how the song is supposed to sound, I think. Not filled with over-the-top singing.
Give me a vocal version where someone could sing the lyrics as soft and compelling and maybe I'd like it, but here, it's Cole by a mile for me.
GgC ~
DeleteNo problem, Brother. I figured you were just busy but you'd make it over here eventually, when you had the time.
Well... I hear what you're saying about the vocals and I agree with you... and also disagree.
What I mean is, what you say makes a lot of sense and I can definitely see it that way, too, and I would probably also like the song performed "softly whispered" like "a breathy caress".
But I also think the song can be equally effective as performed here. (In fact, I don't think I've ever heard it performed more in the manner you describe, but I would definitely be interested in hearing it that way.)
But another way of thinking of the sentiment is as a powerful testament that leaving this woman at ANY TIME is simply unthinkable to the man. The line "Oh, NO, not in SPRINGTIME!" almost seems to contain an emphatic protestation within itself.
But your reasoning does make sense to me and so I fully understand why neither of the vocals appealed to you. (These chicks seem to like 'em though, don't they? Silly, silly girls, always wanting to hear how much we loves 'em and can't live without 'em, eh?;-)
I'm just pleased that I was able to give you a version of the song that you COULD very enthusiastically vote for. And, thanks to your vote and a few of the other more recent ones, it seems Cole is staging a comeback and Gunn ain't blowin' everyone away anymore. Thanks for keeping it competitive, GgC.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Chris' reaction to what he termed "affected male operatic singing" is typical of folks who are not fans. Whether or not people sang IN an opera - a play set to music - operatic style simply WAS good singing at the height of Western culture. A trained voice will always sound like that if it is any good; it is not "affected" at all. Artists that don't take 10+ years of vocal lessons will never sound that way. It takes training. These are people who can literally FILL an entire opera house with the un-amplified sound of their voice alone. At the New York City Opera I once heard soprano Beverly Sills drown out an entire chorus of 75 voices by herself. Even excellent pop voices that we love (Sinatra, Michael Buble'... insert your favorite here) don't have the vocal strength to do that.
DeleteOur current ears have been wrecked. We are now bombarded with bad voices and have been since 1960 or even earlier. Notable popular singers with terrible voices are Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, Tom Petty, Willie Nelson, Jimi Hendrix. Plenty of others. I am not saying I don't like them (well, some of them), but anyone with ears must admit that their voices are not good. Instead of hitting a note, they often search for it, occasionally finding. Some sound like they have adenoids. However, since the societal/philosophical shift to elevate the common man, begun with Karl Marx but not hitting stride until the late 50's (I'm OK - you're OK, "who are you to think you are better'n me?"), these voices that would have been booed off the stage in earlier years are suddenly acceptable. Hip hop and Rap are the worst examples and latest iteration of this societal/philosophical trend. We are spiraling downward in music, as we are in everything else.
I will admit, though, that I often LIKE music/voices I KNOW are bad. Tom Petty's voice sucks... but I like it. A bad voice sometimes adds to a song, but in most cases it sounds good only on an artist's own material. Jimi Hendrix is a great example of that. With a casual listen, his voice actually sounds good on his own stuff, but if you listen carefully his voice really was awful. I like Hendrx (and Dylan, and lots of other folks who have a voice that stinks.)
I emphatically disagree with CF: Gunn's voice is not an "affected male operatic voice." It is a great one, singing as has been established by standards for a LONG time... except for the last few decades. The claim that it is affected is flat out wrong. "Major offender"? Wow!
SHEBOYGANBROTHER SIX ~
DeleteI wish you could just reach a point where you didn't feel like you needed to beat around the bush and could just come out and straightforwardly say what you think. I hate having to try to read between the lines and guess at your meaning.
[;-)}
In all seriousness, I like your comment! I like it when we feel passionately about music, because to some of us - you, me, Chris Fries, Arlee, LC, and so many of the others who participate in and vote in BOTB - music is far more than just another form of "entertainment".
I think much (most? all?) of what you say contains truth. I don't know that I can go ALL the way with you in the "societal/philosophical shift" to the point of bringing Marxism into it (and you KNOW there's no one who despises Marxism more'n I do!) but the "I'm OK - you're OK, who are you to think you are better'n me?" line is one that - if you'd introduced it on my F-FFF blog - would probably just get me started on a 4-Part blog bit Comment. Man, heard THAT!
I think it was probably really "Satchmo" who opened the gate for... uh... "unique" voices to be heard in song. And I for one appreciate that because, like you, some of the "bad" voices bring qualities to songs that genuinely appeal to me.
You didn't mention Neil Young, and I think he probably has the worst natural voice of them all. (Note: I said "natural" voice, which means I'm excluding the phony "put-on" voice that Tom Waits has been using since after his 'Heart Of Saturday Night' album.)
Petty, Dylan, and Young all have a similar "bad" quality to their voices, but I like it in Petty almost all the time; I like it in Dylan most of the time (except for some of his earliest Folk recordings); and I dislike it in Young most of the time (with few a exceptions like 'Sugar Mountain', and 'Hey, Hey, My, My' where it actually seems to match the message).
Your observation that "a bad voice sometimes adds to a song, but in most cases it sounds good only on an artist's own material" is astute. I'd never thought of that but I think you're largely correct. Except I don't like Hendrix's singing on ANYTHING, including his own material. FAE's BOTB this week includes Rickie Lee Jones singing 'Under The Boardwalk', and although I like quite a bit of Rickie's "bad" singing on her own stuffs, it suddenly occurs to me that I have never really liked her all that much when she's performed cover songs. Good point, Six!
And even I will agree that the opera singers have the best voices, being highly trained and masters of voice the way Danny Gatton was a master of the guitar and Richie Cole is a master of the alto saxophone, in the end it still always comes down to what appeals to each person on an individual basis.
As you know, I don't normally care for operatic singing, but some of it may have to do, really, with the particular song. Nathan Gunn being a great example. Had I first heard him singing some song I'm unfamiliar with or not particularly fond of, it's unlikely he would have caught my attention. But hearing him sing 'If Ever I Would Leave You' - a song I've loved for a long time, both its melody and its lyrics - I was instantly able to appreciate Gunn's art and realize that he has a tremendous voice.
>>... "I once heard soprano Beverly Sills drown out an entire chorus of 75 voices by herself."
But... but... but... was she SUPPOSED to do that? And could she break wind-- er, I mean, glass - could she break glass like Ella Fitzgerald?
;-)
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Interesting points that Sheboygen raises. I would first state that when I referred to the male singing as "affected," I did not mean to imply that it was not "skilled," and CERTAINLY did not mean that it was not "talented" or "highly trained". I even said I admire and respect the talents of the singers. Operatic singing is a highly-disciplined, highly-demanding, highly-trained, extremely skillful form of singing that only a very, very small percentage of the population can ever hope to master, and again -- I have a tremendous amount of respect for that level of artistic precision and talent.
DeleteBut it IS affected -- affected by all that discipline, training, and power. It is not a "natural' way of singing in that it doesn't come naturally, any more than ballet dancing, where a ballerina is balanced on ones toes and straining each muscle to precisely place each limb and finger comes naturally to dancers. It takes years of training and extreme hard work at the barre to learn how to do it well.
But that training also affects the dancer -- it's then hard to "let go" and dance jazz or hip-hop with the loose abandon necessary to surrender to the groove and make it seem 'natural'. It's also hard for an opera singer to sing with that loose abandon.
And I think in a song with lyrics that strike me as
intimate and soft and gentle, that the "affected" power and precision of operatic singing seems out of place. But it's just my opinion. It's not necessarily a symptom of the downfall of Western civilization or the reflection of the decline and degradation of modern artistic standards.
I can respect gourmet cooking but still want a cheeseburger; I can respect ballet dancing but still enjoy watching break-dancing; and I can respect operatic singing but still prefer a more 'natural' singing voice.
And I can also respect your opinions without having to consider them a symptom of the elitist, pretentious, sanctimonious snobbery that has somehow led to a perceived decline in modern artistic standards. ;)
Viva la differences, I say.
GgC ~
DeleteThe funny thing is that I find myself agreeing with BOTH of you! That almost never happens. Most of the time I agree with one person 98.25% and the other person 1.50% (and .25% I'm undecided). And then I load my .38 and shoot 100% of my six bullets at Mr. OnePointFifty.
But when two thinkin' people are making intelligent observations about a disputed point, and I'm only on my 4th beer because it's still only 8.29% in the morning, I find I can find common ground with both thinkin' peoples.
Now, later on today - say, about 2.30% in the afternoon - when I've switched from beer to tequila, I'll come back and reread these comments. I'm sure I'll find one o' youz to shoot at then. (Tequila's funny that way.)
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal Inebriated Undertable'
GgC & SHEBOYGANBOY 6 ~
DeleteI was just about to go out the door and walk down to Taco Bell (because I too respect gourmet cooking) and then to my local polling place to cast my ballot.
But just before leaving the house, another thought occurred to me:
I think both of youz guyz would probably like each other. I know SBB-6 better'n I do GgC, but over these BOTB months I feel I've gotten a bit of a handle on where GgC's coming from too. And I suspect y'all have much more in common than you do differences - even when it comes to music, believe it or not.
OK, the Opera thang isn't exactly full agreement maybe, but neither is it a great deal of disagreement - I mean, you do both share some ideas about it.
But I want to point out that BOTH of youz sometimes have shockingly bad taste in music. And I'm not stating this from "my" viewpoint or my personal opinion; I'm stating this as an objective FACT.
For example, GgC might be surprised to learn that SBB-6 actually likes the Clash and Green Day quite a bit. (Now the Clash I can almost forgive because they did get lucky a couple times and record a couple pretty good songs. But GREEN DAY?!... Oh, don't get me started... again.)
And I happen to know that GgC likes U2, particularly some of their earlier stuffs, even if he's not really a Bono fan. (So, there's a little "bonofide" hope for GgC - ironically saved by Bono, or rather, saved by his lack o' love for Bono, musically speaking.)
See, now the truth is, Green Day AND U2 (w/ Bono) should be arrested and locked away inside Disneyland's 'It's A Small World' ride for the rest of their lives, for the crime of making crappy "music". Let 'em suffer the rest of their natural lives on a diet of bad Disney music as just punishment!
Gee, the more I think about this, the more I believe I may come back here at 2:30 PM with my .38 and my half-empty bottle of tequila, and shoot ya BOTH!
Alright, out the door to vote. Here's the deal: I am voting for only ONE politician, who predictably happens to be registered as an 'Independent'.
And I am going to vote on just ONE ballot proposition. The rest of the ballot I am ignoring. Now, here's the proposition I WILL be casting a vote about:
'Unconstitutional Federal Actions Amendment'
Proposition 122
...is on the November 4, 2014 general election ballot in Arizona as a legislatively-referred constitutional amendment.
The measure, if approved, would allow the state to opt out of federal laws deemed unconstitutional by the voters or the state legislature. Under the provisions laid out in Proposition 122, if this occurs, the state would be prohibited from devoting any resources toward enforcing the law, and the federal government would be tasked with enforcement.
Now let's see how well SBB-6 and GgC know ME! How do y'all predict I will vote on this? Will I vote to approve this proposition or vote to kill it?
This is the easiest test question either of yaz will ever face in your entire lives. I predict 100% correct answers from 100% of you two.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
POSTSCRIPT:
DeleteThat's "you two", NOT U2!
;-)
~ McDogg
I like the Clash. :)
DeleteGreen Day? Meh. Some catchy stuff, but doesn't quite grab me as much.
But I like Tom Petty. And especially Neil Young -- particularly with Crazy Horse.
And I do like older U2, particularly the "Boy" debut album, before Bono's ego grew to the size of a really, really big thing that you can use to compare a gigantic ego to. (Sorry -- sometimes the simile machine breaks down...)
And I do respect opera, even if I don't really connect with it.
But truly "GREAT" music?
To me, that's things like Miles' "Kind of Blue," Trane's "My Favorite Things," The Allman Brothers Live at the Fillmore, Mozart's #40 (one of just 2 in a minor key), Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On?," Monk's "'Round Midnight," Glen Miller's "Moonlight Serenade," Bach's "Well-Tempered Clavier," Hendrix doing "Machine Gun" on New Year's Eve 1970 at the Fillmore, "A Day in the Life" by the Beatles, Ornette's "The Shape of Jazz to Come", The Grateful Dead doing "Dark Star"...
So instead of comin' back to shoot us both, how's about we all just sit down, share some shots of tequila and drink to men like us with good taste, great music, and state's rights?
Part 1 Of 2:
DeleteGgC ~
Well, since we're airing out dirty laundry, and I has lots of dirty laundry to air...
It's hard for me to believe now, but in the early days of Punk Rock I was into some of it. I actually owned the first 3 Clash LPs plus 'Combat Rock'. I lost my taste for that kind of stuffs as I got older, but I'd still turn up "Rock the Casbah" and "Should I Stay or Should I Go" if I ever heard them on a radio.
I had a couple Sex Pistols LPs and admit that I still kinda like the song 'Submission', but that's all.
I owned a few albums by X and one album by a band hardly anyone remembers anymore - a Punk-ish Australian band called Radio Birdman. They never had any hits in the U.S., and I couldn't listen to them now EXCEPT FOR what was always my favorite song by them: 'ALOHA, STEVE AND DANNO', which absolutely needs to be cranked up to eleven!
It was actor David Caruso who first told me about U2. This was before anyone really knew about them in the U.S. but Caruso was into the whole "Irish" bit, so he was on to them early. (I've got Irish blood too, but my interest goes only as far as "putting away six doubles of Jameson from the bar and sinking into a deep, apathetic slumber, mumbling, 'Blinkin' cowboys, blinkin' cowboys'." ...Stole that line from Van Morrison, and he's such a curmudgeonly bastard he'll probably sue me for it.)
Anyway, hated U2 then, hate 'em now, and I still say they and Green Day should be incarcerated inside 'It's A Small World' for crimes against humanity.
>>... before Bono's ego grew to the size of a really, really big thing that you can use to compare a gigantic ego to. (Sorry -- sometimes the simile machine breaks down...)
Oh, I understand. That happens to me sometimes too, and it's as frustrating as... as... something really frustrating that you can use to compare extreme frustration to. (It's as frustrating as Bono's ego is large? Not one of my better crafted sentences, that.)
Continued Below...
Part 2 Of 2:
Delete>>... But truly "GREAT" music? To me, that's things like Miles' "Kind of Blue," Trane's "My Favorite Things," The Allman Brothers Live at the Fillmore, Mozart's #40 (one of just 2 in a minor key)... "A Day in the Life" by the Beatles...
Sheboyganboy shares your interest in Classical; he's a Classical music buff. But that ain't me.
Right with ya though on Glenn Miller. For some odd reason I never really was able to get into Coltrane a great deal. Listened extensively to a number of his albums but 'Blue Train' was the only one I ever really warmed up to. Surprising considering his supposed "spiritual" playing, but it never really reached inside of me.
Miles is of course legendary and justly so - a "miles"tone in Jazz. And I dig 'Kind Of Blue' too, but 8 out of 10 times that I put a Miles CD on to play, it is his 'PORGY AND BESS' collaboration with Gil Evans.
"Great" music to me? Too much to mention, naturally but, yeah, Glenn Miller, Dave Brubeck, Howlin' Wolf, Pat Metheny (particularly 'Secret Story' and 'Letter From Home', but also 'Travels' and others). The Beach Boys' instrumental 'Let's Go Away For Awhile', which is just shimmering and stunning.
I also love Bossa Nova, and I gotta mention Dylan who absolutely revolutionized songwriting with 'It's All Right Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)' and 'Subterranean Homesick Blues'. And 'You're A Big Girl Now' can damn-near make me cry if it catches me at the right moment. Almost anything by Mahalia Jackson. And, as you know, I'm also a huge fan of The Carpenters, and that's where you and Sheboyganboy Six both get to beat up on me.
Lots 'n' lots mo', to be sho.
Unfortunately, you missed my old BOTB blog bit featuring 'A DAY IN THE LIFE', but I'm happy to report that I was not alone in voting AGAINST The Beatles.
I was just kidding about shooting you guys. Heck, I haven't shot anyone in 15 months, three weeks, and two and a half days, and I'm tryin' to keep that streak alive.
But I do like your idea of shooters rather than shooting. However, SBB-6 don't drink at all, so he gets to be our Designated Driver. And I have rarely spoken to Tequila since he had me arrested for abusing him in Mexico in 1983. I'll say, "How do ya do?" to a Margarita or two on New Years Day (aka "Margarita Day"), but that's about all the socializing I'm willing to do with Mr. Tequila.
[By the way, I highly recommend getting yourself arrested, as it's a good experience to be able to draw on in your writing and your music composing, but I suggest you don't go that route in Mexico. Try an American jail, as I'm sure they're much more comfortable with much smaller cockroaches.]
But, I am a big fan of Night Train, Thunderbird, 'Dog Bite' High Gravity Lager, and other fine forms of liquid refreshment. Heck, I'm even willing to do shots of George Dickel #12 bourbon... if yer buyin', Brother.
"State's rights"... by jove, methinks you guessed correctly! OK, the first round's on me then.
"Barkeep, set us up! ...But don't let Tequila get near me or I swear I'll abuse his arse again!"
[;-)}
~ Stephen
I’ve been following this comment thread and deliberating about whether or not I wanted to stick my nose into this discussion. Finally, I decided that I would ‘feel bad about myself in the morning’ if I didn’t say something.
DeleteI must applaud Mr. Six for his comment in defense of opera and those who dedicate themselves to it and any serious sense of musical training. I agree that currently and for the past few decades we have been ‘dumbed down’ is so many respects, but none more subtly than in the arts.
If you follow my comments here or my own BOTB, it would be obvious that I am a fan of all those mentioned above who really can’t sing by any standards of musical training. I give most of these performers credit for having the courage and creativity to walk on stage and perform, particularly their own musical creations, which they seem to want to present in their own style, whatever that may be. Often I feel that you can feel their heart and soul coming through and making up for their lack of vocal talent. That said, I have an extreme appreciation for those who have the dedication and training to expand their vocal talents and produce music that can move me to tears of appreciation, even when I often don’t understand the words sung, as in most opera.
I understand the ‘come back’ explanation of the term ‘affected’, but in reality I don’t think it applies. I’m sure Mr. Gunn or Ms. Sills can and do sing Happy Birthday to their children/friends/family with complete abandon, although unlike myself it is probably accompanied by perfect pitch and beautiful timbre and tone. My background in the theatre has enabled me to be friends with more than one ballerina who has danced at the head of some renowned companies; and I can say that I have seen these women rock out at a club, with total and complete abandon to the enjoyment of themselves and everyone else in attendance.
Now, I sincerely hope this was not throwing gasoline on a fire that has already gone out. It is not my intention to do anything here to reignite the flames, but rather express my opinion, which is pretty much what we all do in these votes, but I couldn’t sit back and not agree with this lone voice calling us all on the carpet, and bringing to light an area where we have come to accept less than mediocre talent and elevate it to excessive stardom.
Hitler engaged in book burning in an attempt to eradicate the ‘thinking man’. He was unsuccessful and horrified much of the world, unfortunately after the fact. BUT, since his time those who try to direct our lives from behind the scenes have done more to eradicate the good and beautiful by scoffing at those trained in the arts, and applauding the common, base, and guttural in every form. Today we don’t see much good literature produced, but the monetary rewards felt by those who produce works such as ‘Fifty Shades of Gray’, give each of us the license to believe we can and should publish the next ‘great’ blockbuster, often times without any training whatsoever.
All that said, I did not vote for the version sung so beautifully by Mr. Gunn in this BATTLE, but rather was more moved by the instrumental version of Richie Cole. These BOTB’s are intended to be fun and I for one truly enjoy them (well most of them), but I also felt it was time to recognize someone who has the knowledge and courage to stand up to the scrutiny of US ALL and say ‘HOLD ON JUST A COTTON PICKIN’ MINUTE THERE’ (much more eloquently, of course.)
Part 1 Of 2:
DeleteFAE ~
A marvelous comment, and my gratitude to you for taking the time to think about it and compose it.
If this wasn't already my favorite BOTB of those I have put together for my blog(s) - and, yes, it already was - it certainly would have become my favorite due in part to the passionate exchange of ideas in the comment section.
[Before I continue with this comment, I want to say as an aside, that I tremendously appreciate all of the people who vote on my BOTBs and who provide such thoughtful commentary afterwards. I can't take any credit for this, because for one thing, I don't understand why it is so, but it seems the commentary I've usually gotten on my blog bits, even BOTBs, far exceed in devotion and intelligence and time investment the commentary I generally find on other bloggers' blogs. I'm not trying to write the next great American novel, so I'm not trying to build a blog following for the sake of exposure and future sales. I have nuttin' to sell. And yet I have these extraordinary responses from people who take time out of their lives to comment and interact with me. The underlying purpose for my blogging has ALWAYS been to express certain spiritual and political truths AND to interact with people. In that regard, my blogging has been a success, and it's due primarily to the intelligent readers I have - few in number but big in brain - who have been willing to spend time yakking with me and amongst themselves in my blog bits. Thanks, Y'all!]
To quote Monty Python, "And Now For Something Completely Different". That's what we've had here where for once I got to play the part of referee. I loved it. I never get to play "referee" because I'm almost always IN THE FIGHT. Ha! This was a refreshing twist.
I found I agreed with some of what both SBB-6 said and with some of what GgC said. But, I certainly agreed with 6's comment regarding the negative effects of accepting the false politically correct outlook or assessment that "I'm OK - you're OK, who are you to think you are better'n me?" (I do also happen to know that some of the degradation in the arts today has been deliberately manipulated by Wizards Behind The Curtain. I could prove this point, but chose to shy away from it only because it would open a huge can of worms that belong squirming around more on my 'Ferret-Faced Fascist Friends' blog than this one.)
Continued Below...
Part 2 Of 3:
DeleteFAE, all of us here in this discussion have acknowledged that what music appeals to a person is highly personal, very subjective. We've all acknowledged that despite taste in some extremely sophisticated and "higher grade" quality music (yes, I said "higher grade" and mean it as a judgment - an objective judgment), we also like some... uh... "Philistine Music" (yeah, just made that up, but work with me, Peoples). And there's nothing wrong with liking some Philistine Music, but it makes a mockery out of the arts if anyone tries to take the position that ALL music is equal, that there is not some music better than some other music. We have a right to love Philistine Music, but let's not fall for the idea that "I'm OK - you're OK, who are you to think your music is better'n mine?"
There ARE some objective truths, regardless of how much the postmodernists attempt to brainwash us out of that knowledge. I confess that I like only a limited amount of Classical music, but if anybody thinks I'm going to say that Mozart's music is not "objectively better" than the music of Johnny Rotten, that person is out of their gourd! (I mentioned in an earlier comment that I still kind of like the Sex Pistols' song 'Submission'.) Does anyone really believe that Johnny Rotten could intelligently discuss music theory with Mozart? Not I, that's for damn sure!
I mentioned earlier that I love Dave Brubeck's music, and one could almost describe that as a neo-Classical form of Jazz due to the incredible sophistication of it. Can I not fairly say that when it comes to musical composition Madonna is not equal to Brubeck?
Continued Below...
Part 3 Of 3:
DeleteCurious about the hype, I read the book 'THE HUNGER GAMES', a story about a girl. (I believe it is social propaganda, as hinted at above, but that's for another day and another blog). I have also read 'A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN', a story about a girl. If someone loves 'The Hunger Games', then fine, but don't ANYONE try to tell me that Suzanne Collins is equal to Betty Smith in the craft of writing. There's a certain flash 'n' burn sense of freedom that appeals to me in the books 'The Dharma Bums' and 'On The Road' by Jack Kerouac. But... by no stretch of the imagination am I going to say that Kerouac is John Steinbeck's, Mark Twain's, George Orwell's, or Vladimir Nabokov's equal as an author. I own a copy of 'The Dharma Bums'. I've read and enjoyed, but I don't own, the book 'Crime And Punishment' by Fyodor Dostoyevsky. What appeals more to me does not change the fact that Dostoyevsky is a better writer than Kerouac. And Dostoyevsky was a much deeper thinker, too.
I spent many years studying the art of acting, and watched while skilled directors created scenes for movies and TV shows. I can watch a performance and pick out things the actor or actress is doing that a lot of other viewers wouldn't necessarily notice. When I say something like, "James Dean, Edward Norton and Patricia Heaton are better actors than Steve Martin, Matt Dillon and Jami Gertz", that's a statement based on factual observations founded on an understanding of acting techniques, it is not a subjective opinion. Now someone can say they prefer watching Steve Martin to James Dean, but that doesn't change the FACT that Dean was the better actor.
So, FAE, like you, I believe it's a good thing to keep these ideas in mind, to remember as more and more mediocrity becomes celebrated in our falling, failing society, that there ARE elements by which people CAN assess and grade various art forms. The postmodernists who want us to accept the slogan "I'm OK - you're OK, who are you to think you are better'n me? To think your favorite movie, music, book, painting is better'n mine?" might have center stage, thanks to the mainstream media's assistance, but that doesn't necessarily make their message true.
And for all the rest of us who love the arts but haven't the talent and/or training to excel in them, let us remember what Antonio Salieri said: "Mediocrities everywhere... I absolve you... I absolve you... I absolve you... I absolve you all". Thanks, Sali, baby! I'm feeling much better, thank you very much.
Great discussion, Everyone!
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Thanks, FAE.
DeleteMerci, mom Amore! Je t'adore!
HA HA! my typos are NON-STOP these days!
DeleteFAE:
Merci, mon Amour! Je t'adore!
THERE! That's better!
You, know? I'm glad my vote helped inspire some really interesting, thoughtful, and passionate discussion, and also helped give our esteemed host StMc a thoroughly enjoyable BOTB post.
DeleteAnd you know what else? I absolute, totally, 100% agree that typical operatic singers are "better" singers than other singers, from blues, rock, pop, or other popular forms of music. Opera singers typically have better vocal control, better training, better dynamic range, better pitch range, better projection, better intonation, better understanding of musical theory, and in many other ways.
And perhaps "affected" might have been too strong of way to describe the "operatic-style" singing of Mr Nero and Mr. Gunn -- but it's certainly a style which emphasizes much more articulated and precise control. I tend to notice the 'style' of that control and articulation more so than I do the lyrics of the song, and I find the vocal performance more attention-grabbing than the message of the song. Perhaps that's the whole intent, but as I clumsily and comically tried to express in my previous posts, I found it distracting. Again -- personal taste and lack of a developed "appreciation" for opera influences my vote. It's just not my preferred genre.
"In opera, there is always too much singing." ~ Claude Debussy
I just don't find it something that I want to sit and listen to for entertainment, and have never sought it out as a form of music. I'll gladly accept that says something about me -- I've never been exposed to opera, have little familiarity with it, and have never taken the time to develop a taste for it.
"I hate the very name of opera - partly because of the nights of suffering I have endured in its presence, & partly because I want to love it and can't." ~ Mark Twain
However, I don't know if I can fully accept that the lack of wide-spread appreciation towards opera is a sign of decaying tastes. I think there has ALWAYS been a separation between the masses and those few 'elite' who appreciate "higher" music. I think it's more of a general trait that has existed for a long time. 'Popular' music has always been considered a "lower" form of entertainment for the masses.
"People are wrong when they say opera is not what it used to be. It is what it used to be. That is what's wrong with it." ~ Noel Coward
I suppose it's odd to admit that operatic singing is "better" by virtually every criteria, but then also say that I don't really enjoy it. But I also admit that gourmet cooking is "better" cooking, and yet I would not want to eat it every day, and would much prefer a steak on the grill or a pizza on most typical nights.
But again -- I do not necessarily think that is a reflection of the decline in overall tastes. I think it is typical and has been that way for generations.
"How wonderful opera would be if there were no singers." ~ Gioacchino Antonio Rossini
But fascinating discussion, and if I came off in any of my comments as rude or overly confrontational, I apologize. I sometimes go for humor with not enough thought as to how it might come across.
Oh -- and BTW, StMc: I pretty much total tea -- I very, very rarely drink, and then it's typically a glass of wine (leaning towards Rieslings) . So let's just shelve the whole tequila idea. We can go shoot skeet together instead, OK? And we can take a long some great music to share. I'm no opera fan, but I'd be more than willing to let Six try to turn me into one,. ;)
Goodness knows what the end will be
DeleteOh, I don't know where I'm at
It looks as if we two will never be one
Something must be done:
You say tea and I say tequila,
You say Rieslings and I say Night Train
Tea, Tequila, Rieslings, Night Train
Let's call the whole thing off.
You like pizza and I like brunettes
You like steak and I'm a vegetarian
Pizza, brunettes, steak, P.E.T.A.
Let's call.....
a friend to bring pot, porn & popcorn.
[;-)}
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
If I was voting the vocals, I'd take the far deeper second one. But this is a no contest. The instrumental was far superior. I only looked at the video once, and saw what looked like rabbit pelts on a clothesline. I have to wonder about the video maker....
ReplyDeleteBROTHER MARTIN ~
DeleteThanks for your vote, mang!
This BOTB contest has suddenly turned into a real "contest".
Yeah, the - whatever it was - rabbit or beaver or groundhog or ? hanging its coat on the clothesline to dry. WTH? And you missed the dinosaur being ordered back into the TV screen, and mouse trap rigged with money, and secret lesbian love affair and... consider yourself fortunate to have heard the music without the images.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
The talk about the Countess and the music reminded me that you had written a great blog in the past, re"count"ing some of your experiences at that time of your life:
ReplyDeletehttp://stephentmccarthysstuffs.blogspot.com/2010/03/i-got-them-bad-luck-with-womens-blues.html
It was a great blog bit! I just re-read it. I got my previous comment wrong. You weren't the Count to her Countess: you were the Cowboy. But I still say "UHP! You were an idiot!"
I can understand why you are saying you want to wind down on the blogging: you have always written GREAT blog bits that are deep, detailed, and long. You did a magnificent job of putting together all those quotes and lyrics. And you aren't gettin' paid! That was over four years ago, you're still bloggin', and you've not earned a dime from slamming these words and ideas together. It is a crime, sez I.
SHEBOYGANBOY SIXGUNBRO ~
DeleteMan... THANKS for the wonderful compliment. Your compliments on my writing have ALWAYS meant a very great deal to me, because I KNOW you know good writing, and having once been a newspaper man... well, that's a compliment coming from a genuine authority. So, you make me feel good, my friend, and that's worth more than gold to me right now because these have been pretty tough times for me the last few years.
You're right... UHP! I'm an idiot!
Of course, I myself had called me that at least a godzillian times before you even learned the expression, which was born during my hard-boozin' 'League Of Soul Crusaders' years. None of us could definitively say who invented that line, and it was quite possibly an ensemble creation because back then we were like Monty Python (only drunker) and played off of each other's sense of humor like master musicians (only drunker).
I remember putting that blog bit together. It took a lot of time, but I had fun recalling those quotes that included the word "womens". Most or all of them I already knew because it's based in the Blues and I'd been a fan of that musical form for a long time.
If I were to be remembered for just 10 Blog Bits I've composed over the years, that one about my minimalist love life and "all the womens I've loved before", might be one I'd select.
I know for sure I would include the blog bit 'GOLDENSHADOW': “The Stab, The Pang, The Inconsolable Longing”. I'd post a URL address for it here but I just came from there and see that you'd left a comment, so you're already familiar with it.
You know who else left a comment on that one? Anniee, or Linda Haley, or LindAnniee.
I remember that FAE was impressed by that old blog bit when she found it. She didn't know me as well at that time and I think she was surprised that I could actually think deeper than the bottom of a 12-ounce bottle of beer. Ha!
Anyway, thanks again, Brother Sixgun! And for the record, although F-FFF is breathing its last, I intend to continue with the "Battle Of The Bands" blog forever or until the day I die, whichever comes first.
Also, take heart, because although Richie Cole looks to be making a real contest out of this BOTB, there's not a lot of time left for it, and methinks yer boy Nathan Gunn may have it in the bag. (Although he's not gotten shutout, Franco Merlino certainly is out of the running for first place.)
Oh... one more thing...
that remark about Ella Fitzgerald breaking wind in public... uhm... can't recall offhand where I read about it, but that's supposedly based in musical history fact. A Google search might take you there.
Yak Later, Bro6.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Damn, this was a lot of fun. So my cohort, who is not so much for the opera, enjoyed all of them but likes the Richie Cole version best. And me? My vote is summed up with this single picture:
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the Gunn Show
What a voice! I listened to this BOTB over the weekend, and the moment I played the Nathan Gunn version my wife poked her head around the corner and asked, "Oooh, who's that?" I said, "Not really sure, just doing one of McCarthy's BOTBs." And she replied, I kid you not, "Vote for him. NOW. Also, get me one of his albums."
(She's a big fan-a da opera)
~6B
>>... "Welcome to the Gunn Show"
ReplyDelete"Wow, that's a big gun, man". (3:36)
Dang, these chicks sure dig a man with a big gun. Er-- ...I meant to say, these chicks sure dig that man, Gunn, with the big voice.
6-B, sorry this BOTB cost ya money. Hopefully, you can find a Gunn album used at half price.
Thanks for the botes, BEER BOYS!
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Nero gets my vote and Gunn is second. I do enjoy the instrumental but I can't get myself to vote for it since it is in a different playground so to speak.
ReplyDeleteOK, thanks for your vote, MIKE.
DeleteI like the fact that every one of these performers has received multiple votes. I was sure that would happen, and it's a sign that I put together a worthwhile "Battle" here.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
I will also go with Ritchie Cole's instrumental. That's not to say that Nathan Gunn's reading of the song was inferior by any means: he has a gorgeous voice. It's just that, when compared with the original, there's not much of a difference. The arrangement Cole plays is more interesting.
ReplyDeleteAl Bondigas here. I like the instrumental a lot, in fact I like all three versions, but, I choose Gunn as a clear winner. Man, that's some kind of voice!!! I don't care much for opera either, but if I was blessed with that voice I might even consider wearing the customary tights while I was performing. Hmmm, naw. Never mind. That's it. That's my rulin'.
ReplyDeleteJOHN and AL, I appreciate receiving your 11th Hour votes. Thanks!
DeleteJUDGE BONDIGAS ~
Ha! Yeah, pass on the tights, that's REALLY not you. Plus, then I'd have to disown ya, AND they might have turned your beautiful baritone into a screechy soprano.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
PART ONE:
ReplyDeleteSTMcC’s Vote On ‘BOTB - 2014, November 1st
- Franco "Merlino" Nero Vs. Nathan Gunn Vs. Richie Cole’ And The Final Tally:
First thing I want to say is that for a number of reasons, this is my favorite BOTB blog bit I've ever put together and I don't foresee a better one coming any time real soon.
Like others who expressed a similar opinion, I genuinely like ALL 3 of the renditions of 'IF EVER I WOULD LEAVE YOU' that were featured here. I think it's a great song, and I think these were all excellent performances of it.
I also appreciate the voter turnout I had this time around. This BOTB received a total of 20 votes, which I am pretty sure is the greatest number of votes ever cast in one of my BOTB competitions.
And lastly I enjoyed reading (and at times participating in) the extensive commentary that this BOTB generated. Yeah, it got a little warm in here a couple times, but that's ONLY BECAUSE people were expressing their feelings about music, and music happens to be a passion for these folks. This was hardly one of those BOTBs where people just write: "I vote for the first one because it appeals to my ears the most".
So, my thanks to all y'all for voting and for speaking up and expressing your passionate thoughts on music, the most spiritual of all art forms.
OK, my vote...
From about 1985 or '86 until close to the end of 1992, I worked on the UCLA campus. I had a job where I worked nights, driving around the campus fixing parking lot equipment and performing other miscellaneous Parking Department duties.
There was a decent amount of "down time" during some stretches of the night and I was able to park my company truck and just listen to my favorite radio station, KLON, which played exclusively Jazz and Blues.
One night in 1988, I was parked on a quiet little side street on the campus, a small roadway lit by only a few streetlamps. The rain was coming down pretty hard that night and I was listening to KLON while looking through the rain-streaked windshield at the golden light from the lampposts reflected on the dark, wet pavement.
Then the DJ plays this song. An alto sax and piano instrumental. It's gorgeous. It's loaded with a melody that just drips love and longing, and the playing is absolutely exquisite. I had no idea who or what I was hearing, but I knew it was an A-list, fabulous recording by a person who was clearly a master of the saxophone.
Think about it: Dark, rainy night, quiet little side street with no traffic on it, a saxophone ballad about a torrid love affair and an instrumental that turns terrifically torchy in the final minute. (I didn't know the song, but I didn't need lyrics to recognize the subject matter of the music.)
CONTINUED BELOW...
PART TWO:
ReplyDeleteI was fully hooked by about the halfway point and all I could think at that point was: "Oh, please, Mister DJ, tell me who and what this is!" ...Mister DJ did. (I thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU, Mister DJ!)
Westwood Village was one of L.A.'s hot nightspots back then, filled with movie theatres, restaurants, bars, bookstores, and... record stores - at least 4 record stores all within about a four or five square block area. And as luck would have it, from where I had my company truck parked on the UCLA campus, I could be in the heart of Westwood Village in five minutes or less (depending upon traffic).
When the song ended, Mister DJ said, "That was Richie Cole with 'If Ever I Would Leave You' from his latest album 'Signature'." I immediately started the truck and drove through the rain into Westwood Village, going to the record store that I knew carried the best selection of Jazz records. Fate left a parking spot for me RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE STORE (as if they had expected me and saved a parking place for me). So, literally, within ten minutes of hearing Richie Cole's version of this song on the radio, I owned a copy of his album 'Signature'. I've owned it ever since.
Obviously, I am voting for the Cole instrumental as it's still my favorite rendition of this song, and one of my Top 5 or Top 3 instrumentals of all time. I loved the song so much that I did a little research to find out who wrote it, and that led me to see the movie 'Camelot'.
Cole has incredible control on that alto sax and he's a master of it to the same degree that Nathan Gunn is a master of voice. There are a few places in the Cole instrumental where the melody calls for 2 notes but Cole plays it with 3 or 5. In doing so, he really takes what is already a beautiful melody and breathes life into it. Had he overdone that effect, he would have turned the piece into more of a show-off Be-Bop exercise. Thankfully, Richie Cole knows EXACTLY what he's doing with that saxophone and how to add just enough touches to enhance a melody and not degrade it.
In 2004, I decided to write a review of Richie Cole's album 'SIGNATURE' for Amazon.scum. Thinking about the night I first heard 'IF EVER I WOULD LEAVE YOU' and how I came about owning it, the memory of that night seemed to scream "Film Noir!" at me. So I decided to begin my review by writing a semi-fictionalized Film Noir-ish account of hearing that song and racing down to Westwood Village to acquire a copy of it.
Below, I will paste the opening section of that review for anyone who might want to read it. But for those who aren't interested in my Film Noir-ish review and just want to know the outcome of this BOTB, here are the results:
Franco Nero (aka Gene Merlino) = 4 Votes
Nathan Gunn = 7 Votes
Richie Cole = 9 Votes
CONTINUED BELOW...
PART THREE:
DeleteAnd now the opening of my 2004 review of 'SIGNATURE' by Richie Cole:
'IT WAS A RAINY NIGHT IN NINETEEN EIGHTY-EIGHT...'
IT WAS A RAINY NIGHT IN NINETEEN EIGHTY-EIGHT and back East, the Los Angeles underDOdGers were performing miracles - publicly humiliating the cocky New York Mets. I was working the night watch in the City Of Angels. Angels my patoot! I was parked on a dark side street watching the rain pelt my windshield and listening to that cat blow his alto. It gave great meaning to the rain. His notes bruised my heart like a set of brass knuckles to the jaw! "That was RICHIE COLE with 'IF EVER I WOULD LEAVE YOU' from his latest release, SIGNATURE," the whiskey-voiced disc jockey told me over the thunder clap.
I immediately turned the engine over and spun a U-turn. Fishtailing on the slick street, I nearly flattened a drenched and darting tomcat. I could see in his eyes that we were both searching for the same thing: redemption. Or just a warm place to spend this cold night. I negotiated the sedan through the neon light-splashed concrete jungle boulevards.
There was an empty parking space right in front of the record shop. They must have expected me. I pulled my fedora down and the collar on my trench coat up as I approached the clerk. "John Doe," I said. He reached under the counter and came up with a battered black briefcase. "I know, Mr. Doe. Now blow!" he said, pushing the briefcase at me. The rain had let up and I sped home.
Making sure that I had not been followed, I climbed the dilapidated staircase to my dark, shabby apartment. I poured a tumbler of amber tonic, and lit a cigarette before removing the compact disc from the briefcase. I pushed 'Track Seven - Repeat' and sat back. With the beginning of the piano intro, lightning flashed and the rain resumed right on cue. The cool cat, Cole, hit that cascading note in the very same moment that the bourbon hit my bloodstream.
There was nothing left to do now but wait. The dame was late. As usual. But I knew she would be here soon enough. We'd see a REAL storm then!
[My thanks again to all you voters / commenters, and I hope to see you again at my next BOTB blog bit on November 15th.]
~ Stephen (STMcC)
Ah yes, now all is right with the world. I had a momentary lapse where I was a'feared that you would vote for something other than the Richie Cole version. You DID keep me guessin' right up until early this morning.
DeleteThanks for an interesting BATTLE and comment section STMcnoir. Love the rainy night in '88, even if there is no despicable woman.
Also, thanks for giving me the opportunity to redeem myself and receive a little 'French' in return.
BTW, can I bring the po...er..., popcorn. Yeah, that's right I would like to bring the popcorn.
>>... "even if there is no despicable woman."
DeleteI said it was Film Noir, so of course there's a despicable woman...
[The dame was late. As usual. But I knew she would be here soon enough. We'd see a REAL storm then!]
...she just hadn't arrived on the scene yet.
Sure, you can bring the popcorn.
But if you want to be fondle-- er... if you want to be fondly remembered you'll bring one of the other two things instead.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Have you written about this story in a previous blog bit somewhere in time? I was experience deja vu as I was reading this as I'm sure I've heard this story before. In any case, it was an enthralling account.
ReplyDeleteAnd can you believe you and I voted the same here? Of course we were both right though I won't belittle the tastes of the opera lovers or singers who sing in a lower register than I like to listen to. I'll take the 3 Tenors over the 3 Basses anyday. Add a 4th base and you'd have a baseball game.
Just think, if you hadn't added in the Franco Nero or whoever that was that sang that version, Mr. Gunn might have won this Battle. As it is, the best rendition (according to my tastes) won.
Good Battle and excellent discussion.
Lee
Battle of the Bands results post!
Tossing It Out
LEE ~
DeleteThat's pretty scary when you and I vote alike. But I saw we did it twice this time, because you voted for McGuinness Flint also. Strange Days have found us!
Actually, it was Nathan Gunn I added. The original thought was to put Franco Nero against Richie Cole, but when I stumbled upon that Gunn version I simply HAD to include it because it was too damn good to leave out. Still, your point holds. Had I not included Gunn, "Franco Merlino" might have won.
Yeah, that Film Noir story SHOULD give you a sense of deja vu. Click on the title link and I feel certain it will all come back to you.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Al Bondigas here. That was a remarkably well written story. The problem is you got me craving bourbon now. I know you've got some stashed around here. Well, where is it punk?
ReplyDeleteJUDGE AL BONDIGAS ~
DeleteHa! Thanks.
I'm not sure if there's any bourbon remaining. There was 6 shots, and I know what you're thinking: "Did he drink six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I kind of lost track myself. The question is: Do you feel lucky, punk? Well, do ya?
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Ah yes, now I see why the story stood out so much for me. That was a long time ago--about 50 years in blog years.
ReplyDeleteLee
Wrote By Rote
I am late to this party. I had no idea thing were getting so hot here. Before I began scrolling down to read the final tally, I saw that there were 69 COMMENTS. Holy tomole. What has broken loose on this blog? I was thinking. Must say that your blog does seem to elicit the most intriguing comments all the way around.
ReplyDeleteI have been meaning to ask for some time... because I know that it should be obvious, but I can't quite wrap my head around it. SheboybanboySix... one of the guys from A Beer For The Shower? Which one? I think Brandon maybe. Because I think you call Bryan 6-B. Or he calls himself that. I don't know... as I said, very confusing.
Well, I was (obviously) hoping Gunn would win this one, but I am okay with how it turned out. I really did like the Cole version. And I loved your Tale Da Noir of how you discovered it. You really do have a flair for writing that constantly astounds and delights me. (Don't go getting all big-headed about it now...)
Lastly, I posted this on my TV blog and thought you would enjoy it...
http://tvjunctionfunction.blogspot.com/2014/11/were-gonna-have-to-walk-it.html
ROBIN ~
DeleteYeah, the floodgates burst open and the lava was flowing. (I know that floodgates and lava don't really relate to one another but... I don't always play by da rules.)
Yes, Bryan is 6-B, but Brandon is not Sheboyganboy Six. SBB-6 is another bloke - one who doesn't drink beer. (I'll betcha didn't think I'd associate with a bloke that don't drink beer, eh?)
Thanks for the compliment!
A few more like those and I might just feel too impo'tant to come around here anymore. Or at least I might start charging y'all to read my shi-- ...stuffs.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'